tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1178284085080580526.post6781741533940679171..comments2024-02-12T23:25:09.583-08:00Comments on Overweening Generalist: Universal Basic Income (UBI) vs. the Negative Income Tax (NIT)michaelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13526042582094867513noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1178284085080580526.post-55845296490552565862019-11-14T13:23:24.662-08:002019-11-14T13:23:24.662-08:00Howdy. Here in 2019 your ideas about money seem pr...Howdy. Here in 2019 your ideas about money seem practical to me. I wonder how the economy of the 2020's will unfold.Eric Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04312033917401203598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1178284085080580526.post-41290224757077926332013-12-21T05:04:36.793-08:002013-12-21T05:04:36.793-08:00Valerie-
Thanks for commenting. I think you'r...Valerie-<br /><br />Thanks for commenting. I think you're right about the NIT. It's been a loooong time since I wrote this post and since then the topic has really heated up.<br /><br />I wrote more recently about UBI here:<br />http://overweeninggeneralist.blogspot.com/2013/11/assault-on-poverty-universal-basic.html<br /><br />I'm right there with you: we must avoid the "welfare trap" and anything that's done, ostensibly to ameliorate poverty and inequality had BETTER be done in a way so that the All For Us/Nothing For Anyone Else crowd doesn't wipe out the entire safety net and leave everyone else even worse off. michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13526042582094867513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1178284085080580526.post-75095203098041680462013-12-21T02:57:42.226-08:002013-12-21T02:57:42.226-08:00The other problem is that an NIT typically puts th...The other problem is that an NIT typically puts the highest marginal rates on the lowest incomes, meaning we still have the 'welfare trap' effect, and we still try to raise the most taxes from those with the highest dollar-for-dollar marginal propensity to produce.Valerie Keefehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05715748655909242883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1178284085080580526.post-48107593517935963072011-08-18T14:25:50.799-07:002011-08-18T14:25:50.799-07:00Thanks for your enlightened response, Mr. Miller. ...Thanks for your enlightened response, Mr. Miller. The Law of Rent remind me of Ricardo's Iron Law of Wages. Indeed, "rent" seems to be a part of the paideuma (see more recent blog post in this spot) that most people haven't thought much about. Or if they have, they don't talk about it. Robert Anton Wilson found it interesting and telling that there have been no TV shows in which landlords were the main characters...I like the word "mulcted" in the Churchill quote.<br /><br />The Citizen's Dividend has much to offer our imaginations, and I'm busy trying to get a sufficient grasp of these wonderful alternative ideas. I find this study difficult, because 1.) each idea has very many moving parts and, as you point out, making a change in one area can possibly set off predictable changes in some other area, and 2.) It also seems a "law" that we must consider "known unknowns" in any of these changes.<br /><br />I recently read one pretty radical writer on alternative economic ideas say we should impose a Flat Tax of 90% on everyone! Can you imagine the changes then?, assuming the Rich actually paid?michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13526042582094867513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1178284085080580526.post-2852993454930125442011-08-18T13:11:46.728-07:002011-08-18T13:11:46.728-07:00The Citizen's Dividend beats both of them, bec...The Citizen's Dividend beats both of them, because these other ones are not funded out of rent. <br /><br />The Law of Rent proves that increases in rent will nullify whatever expected benefits will occur.<br /><br />"Some years ago in London there was a toll bar on a bridge across the Thames, and all the working people who lived on the south side of the river had to pay a daily toll of one penny for going and returning from their work. The spectacle of these poor people thus mulcted of so large a proportion of their earnings offended the public conscience, and agitation was set on foot, municipal authorities were roused, and at the cost of the taxpayers, the bridge was freed and the toll removed. All those people who used the bridge were saved sixpence a week, but within a very short time rents on the south side of the river were found to have risen about sixpence a week, or the amount of the toll which had been remitted!" - Winston ChurchillEdward Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04816132935738969135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1178284085080580526.post-28447599029627994052011-08-18T13:09:31.302-07:002011-08-18T13:09:31.302-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Edward Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04816132935738969135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1178284085080580526.post-79112447806285991972011-08-10T00:29:10.561-07:002011-08-10T00:29:10.561-07:00Great point about a universal health care system -...Great point about a universal health care system - something I often forget (or take for granted) because there's been such a system in the UK for decades.<br /><br />And over 99% of folks in Britain would fight to keep this highly successful practical-utopian system (despite the lying propaganda from the lying liars among the hard ideological rightwing).<br /><br />When I ponder this, I wonder about the original creation of the NHS (National Health Service as it's called in UK). Creating it from scratch 60 years ago - when the country had far less wealth than now.<br /><br />I'm pretty sure that if it had to be created from scratch now, it wouldn't be - it would be labelled as too utopian, costly, wishful thinking, etc, by politicians, media, and those who beleive politicians and media (to overgeneralise slightly).Sue Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02042694919673009972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1178284085080580526.post-53013450526127967862011-08-09T15:24:56.350-07:002011-08-09T15:24:56.350-07:00In these kinds of blog posts, I really need this q...In these kinds of blog posts, I really need this quality of comment, and I thank you for it. An hour before I read this I was looking into the Earned Income Tax Credit.<br /><br />I suspect your take on a universal health care is unimpeachable. In all my readings about it, Unistatians would probably save money and get equal or better care, but corporate media has a maddening number of Murrkins screaming that it would mean a WORD that is evil, and they continue to suffer. Ignorance and stupidity seem to be the biggest obstacles here?michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13526042582094867513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1178284085080580526.post-49546801335909993132011-08-09T14:48:47.855-07:002011-08-09T14:48:47.855-07:00I suspect that for either the UBI or negative inco...I suspect that for either the UBI or negative income tax to work really well, it would need to be coupled with a universal health care system that guaranteed coverage for everyone. That would eliminate much of the unemployment trap -- you could take a job or start a business. In fact, the freedom to start a business without having to worry about losing health care would be a useful way to help deal with unemployment.<br /><br />The time lag for the negative income tax is a serious problem, but it could be dealt with, if a system of low interest loans was set up. Time lag is a big problem with the Earned Income Tax Credit -- much of the money is skimmed off by companies that complete your tax return, then provide a high-interest "advance refund."Cleveland Okie (Tom Jackson)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07810736442596736041noreply@blogger.com